views and visitors

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User avatar

Posts: 2390

can someone explain to me about the difference in
Views and Visitors?
in kindergarten words please.

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

The only thing they have in common is they begin with the letters "Vi" and end with the letter "s".

View = page load.

Visitor = person.

User avatar

Posts: 2390

Page load?
does it load with out a person doing it?
why would it load?
what's page load mean?

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

You click on a link and the "page load"s in your browser. You then "view" that page. You may then click on another link and that "page load"s in your browser and you "view" that. Now you are one "visitor", who has made two "views".

Yes, pages can load without humans but this is not a normal scenario. One example would be Google crawling your site and incurring "page loads". These "page loads" are still referred to as "views" for the purposes of statistics. Equally, Google is classified as a single "visitor", even though it is not human. Usually the "visitor" is defined by an IP address over a certain period of time.

An average stat for yuku would be that a single "visitor" incurs approximately 6 "views" in around 8 minutes, then leaves.

User avatar

Posts: 2390

ahh i think i am getting it.
thank you soo much.

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

Suppose I visit your board at 1PM every day of the week (1), open your general forum (1), look at the last page of your first topic (1), return to the forum (1), look at the last page of your second topic (1), return to the forum (1), look at the last page of your third topic (1), return to the forum (1), look at the last page of your fourth topic (1), return to the forum (1), look at the last page of your fifth topic (1), return to the forum (1), return to the index page (1), then exit.

On one visit, I incurred 13 page loads. The fact that the forum page is unchanged 6 times and the directory unchanged two times is irrelevant, they still count at page loads.

If I do this every day of the week, I will have made 7 visits and viewed 91 pages.

If on my visits I find that I need to view more than one page of a topic, the views rise. If I choose to post using "add reply", then I incur views of the posting page. If I have "stay in topic" chosen, I incur an extra view again. If I refresh or reload pages, I add to the view count.

User avatar

Posts: 2390

thank you teacher :)
look at these stats. we sure run out of donations faster than many other boards. wouldn't you say so?


5469 Avg visits per day
12240 Avg views per day

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

2.24 pages per visit? You have a high bounce rate. People are mostly landing on a page and just leaving.

You have a lovely number of views per day but people are not hanging around. You could try educating members to use Quick Reply instead of "Add Reply". You could try educating members not to use "Stay in topic". You could try educating members to not reload pages so often. You could try educating members to use their back button rather than the breadcrumbs. However, the members are not the real issue here. Your guests are.

Unfortunately, we have no data to indicate who they are, why they are there or why they leave again. Let me take a stab at something though ...

By any chance does your board discuss medications?

The reason I ask this is because it is a highly popular area for spam. You may not be getting many spam posts but that does not stop spambots trying to register, trying to post and from harvesting previous posts for the purposes of gaining an insight into your board and preparing material that seems fitting to post.

Bots do not view ads, therefore they are just a drain. They can incur many page loads in a short time too (except yuku limits this to an extent). However, yuku stats DO count these as "views", which is very unfair. It is unfair to you as you are the ones having to pay for bot "views". It is unfair to an advertiser because that "view" is not truly an ad view.

Now, I could be wrong ... just remember that I am basing this on instinct and your board being a popular spam target.

If I look at your board in another way, it would sit quite happily on a host costing around $120 a year, with a further $10 for a domain name. i.e. $130 a year. Yes, revenue for that could surely be recovered just from using AdSense alone, from the number of views you have. There would be excess too!

Let's do some more math ...

12240 Avg views per day

Let's divide that by two to roughly estimate what could be called a "yuku ad view": 6,120. Then let's multiply that by 365 for a year: 2,233,800.

Yuku Gold is $0.20 per 1,000, meaning you are paying around $446.76 a year. Remember, this cost is for ad removal only.

If this sounds right, your board would be better off being self-hosted but your difficulty is having someone to manage the technical aspects of that. It's not just a "set it up and leave it". If you have spambot issues, this is a constant battle and one that does need time and attention spent managing it because if you don't, they will use all your server resources and leave the humans with next to none. Whatever software you may choose does need to be upgraded, mostly from the security aspect and this tends to be a couple of times a year. I'm just scratching the surface here. There is a lot more involved.

If I were running that board, I would want to know why people are bouncing and not sticking. The views are great, if all you want is to get people to view ads and get paid for it. Ideally, you want these people as members though and if not that, just regulars.

User avatar

Posts: 2263

Sally, another way to think of views: if I were to sit on a page and hit the reload button ten times, that would be ten views.

Unless something has changed at Yuku since I've been there, every time someone someone hits the back or forward button, the page fully reloads. That constitutes a view. That doesn't happen on this board.

User avatar

Posts: 679

Location: Orange County, Calif. (near Disneyland and Los Angeles)

Every time someone someone hits the back or forward button, the page fully reloads.

Wouldn't that be a browser issue? The browser shouldn't reload a page when you hit the "Back" or "Forward" buttons -- it should display the cached page.

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

Not when it is told not to.

GET / HTTP/1.1
Host: ##########.yuku.com
Accept: text/html,application/xhtml+xml,application/xml;q=0.9,*/*;q=0.8
Accept-Language: en-us,en;q=0.5
Accept-Encoding: gzip,deflate
Accept-Charset: ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
Keep-Alive: 300
Connection: keep-alive
Cache-Control: max-age=0

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Sun, 12 May 2013 22:09:27 GMT
Server: Apache
Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
Pragma: no-cache
Vary: Accept-Encoding
Content-Encoding: gzip
Set-Cookie: crwg_rsid=1046; path=/;
Keep-Alive: timeout=5, max=500
Connection: Keep-Alive
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

User avatar

Posts: 2390

thank you guys.
well now i have a headache. lol

yes andrew there are drugs discussed.
my thoughts are we have many viewers who have an ailment and like to read all about what others do about it. they do not want to post or they can be shy about posting. they are there looking for information only.
and then we have those from another board and those who are or were members who like to read whats going on mostly in 2 of the forums. its a busy board and always has been.

one thing i need to mention is that i am not an acting admin at this time.
i do want the information but its to be used just in case of problems in the future. i may not be acting but i will always care about that board.
again thank you all for your expertize.

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

These numbers do not match your thoughts. They say that you have a heck of a lot of one-hit-wonders.

User avatar

Posts: 2390

maybe the one hit wonders are just curious people that don't have the ailment.
we do get spammers at times.

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

That's possible.

The first question to ask is why they are not staying.

Yes, you will have spambots. You will also have many people whose interest is not Tinnitus related and therefore do not explore further. Here for example, we get many hits for posts like TeamViewer issues, PhotoBucket issues and even your "Mouse" topic gets a number of hits. None of these fit the purpose of this message board, so they look and they leave. This is quite normal.

In the case of people whose interest is Tinnitus and yet they do not explore further, questions really need asked and answered. Not only that, measures put into place to try and engage them.

Very quickly (because I do not believe this is a huge factor) *** revised: see last two paragraphs ***, starting from the top ...

If I do a google search such as anyone else may, yes your site appears ... Great! Your page title is not wonderful. "Tinnitus Support Message Board Forums" Nothing can be done about the unfortunate addition of "Forums", so that has to be worked with. "Tinnitus Support Forums" would be much cleaner and clearer. i.e. Drop the " Message Board" from your domain name.

Your site description could use an overhaul. Currently it reads: "Tinnitus Support Message Board Support and information group for people with tinnitus (ringing in the ears)"

The first 4 words there are the domain name and there is nothing that can be done about that other than look at the earlier paragraph. Let's assume it begins with "Tinnitus Support Forums" instead ...

"Tinnitus Support Forums is a place of comfort where those with tinnitus (ringing in the ears) can meet to exchange information, advice, and support."

You may recognize the words; they were actually pretty good! :)

So, for your description, you would simply enter: "is a place of comfort where those with tinnitus (ringing in the ears) can meet to exchange information, advice, and support."

Looks weird, huh? Doesn't matter. We're just using the way the system works to our advantage.

Further down the Google results, I see: "Support - How It Can Get Better Forum - Moz - Calendar"

The first two are OK. You could maybe lose the calendar if it is unused? That is hardly top priority info! A profile? :eek

OK ... As we do not have access to Google to control that, how can we alter it to benefit?

Look at forum names. Your "Support" forum would be better titled "Tinnitus Support". Reason: look at your page title when you enter that forum. It says nothing about what type of support is offered.

Your archives are all very nice but do they contain useful and related information? If so, reflect that in the forum titles.

Mostly the rest is irrelevant to the purpose of the board (and yes, I am deliberately discounting links).

How about forum descriptions? These could add (elevated) content to your index page and detract from profile names and calendar links. (Get the message? That is what Google thinks is most important about that page.)

Result out of all that is that you will get more related hits. I just had a thought ... You come very near the top of the results for "yuku support". Now THAT could be why people are visiting and leaving. Top of the pile for "yuku support group" as well as "yuku support message board".

There you likely have where most of your bounces result. Altering the board name as well as your "Support" forum name should (in time) reduce your bounces. You are paying for these! Get your hits as relevant as you can.

User avatar

Posts: 2390

All great information and very helpful Andrew.
i will take it all in and i may be able to use it if i have the control of the controls ;)

User avatar

Posts: 2390

just to update and no i havent followed through because i have left it up to the other admins. at this time anyway.

5117 Avg visits per day
13131 Avg views per day

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

2.57 Average page views per visit.
2,396,407 Approximate ad views per year.
$479.28 Approximate cost of Gold for a year.

You could offset this somewhat by showing ads to guests and non-members.

User avatar

Posts: 2390

hmm how would i do that? one admin tried to limit access to members only to see if this made a difference and it didnt. also the mass crowd of members complained when they had to "log in" . sighs.
so getting back to the ads. could u give me the how and i will notify the admins and see if they are open to it.
thanks

User avatar

Admin

Posts: 11073

It sounds like they successfully did that and then reverted. In that case, they seem to know how.

Perhaps your members need to become more involved. If they knew that the board was costing a lot of money to keep ad-free, they are in the position of either having to pay for it or consider the lesser option of going through the great effort of logging-in. On the other hand, sometimes these things are best handled by making a clear statement, locking it and toughing it through.

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